Having just flown back from Japan an hour ago, I gotta agree that it's a misconception for people to see it as more Faustian than its neighbors. It basically feels like it's stuck in the 2000s because it's a gerontocracy filled with DVD, CD, and even VHS stores where you have to pay with cash to make a purchase. In the 80s the majority of the top 50 companies by market cap were Japanese, whereas now Toyota is the only one that still is. Panasonic, Sharpe, and Toshiba have stopped selling TVs in the US because they couldn't keep up with Korean companies.
I posit that the reason people online perceive Japan as more restless and agentic is that it happened to be the first to converge with the West due to historical contingencies. China was bigger and therefore of more interest to the West, so the British went in and set off the century of humiliation. The US encroached on Japan, and the Japanese saw what had happened to China and took active steps to avoid such a fate. Korea then began the same process but was swept by the currents of great power competition and thus was unable to sustain the Gabo Reforms independently. The fact that Japan dominated export markets for several decades further cemented its place in the American psyche as a restless competitor.
I think most observers no longer hold this view however. Whenever you read an article or watch a video about contemporary Japan, it always tells the same story of Japan rising from the ashes of war then crashing into sclerotic, postmodern decline in the 90s.
Chinese pop culture/entertainment is a lot less accessible for westerners than Japanese or South Korean media. That results in a lack of soft power and Chinese culture seems more foreign and daunting to try to understand. But I agree that China is more impressive than Japan. Wignat weeaboos are so cringe. And many of the Chinese FOBs I worked with when I was in healthcare were quite brash and straightforward, including the women. Koreans are the reserved ones; they are like turbo-WASPs, right down to the mainline Protestantism. I’ve always admired the opulent, slightly vulgar aesthetics of rich Chinese people. IMO East Asians in the US tend to be fairly meritocratic and I usually enjoyed having them as coworkers. Also a lot of FOBs are racist which is funny lol
Koreans are the least passive East Asians. People literally pull passersby off the street and drag them into cult churches. People cuss each other out in public, and guys spit on the sidewalk. People talk on the metro and get publicly drunk on holiday nights. Koreans are rightly stereotyped as overly emotional, explosive, and obsessed with ostentatious displays of wealth. The country also has the most tumultuous politics. Koreans are the French of Asians, Japanese the Germans/Scandinavians, and Viets the Italians.
Chinese have had a run with soft power in the form of Hong Kong movies in the 80s and 90s, and boba’s a Taiwanese creation
Fair points. I have heard the stereotype that Koreans drink a lot and can be very emotional. I definitely don’t think they are passive! To me, aesthetics of k-dramas and movies register as very luxurious but also tasteful. Also I was kinda stereotyping based on my experiences with Christian upper-middle class Korean Americans and how they act in mixed company. I’m sure you’re correct about Koreans in Korea, though. The analogy to France is a good one.
Chinese shows and movies are just way harder to find in translation. SK deliberately makes its pop culture accessible to foreigners.
Most Korean Americans are evangelical rather than mainline, and the churches tend to be money-generating machines that rely a lot on charisma. A lot of second gen Korean Americans are hood Asians though this subculture may have declined as LA's priced people out. So, I've always seen Korean Americans as having the vain and bold sensibilities of the home country in contrast to the reserved and polite behavior of Japanese people.
Interestingly a lot of Korean pop culture is designed specifically to be marketed overseas rather than domestically. Hence, a lot of the most popular K-pop idols aren't Korean (Lisa's Thai and Hanni's Australian for instance).
I find it strange that you’ll consider the Chinese to be king Asian when they’re historically more docile and at the behest of Japanese invading forces
China was historically dominant in its neighborhood except against Japan, which only successfully invaded once during WWII. This success came from Japan's unique position as the region's sole industrialized power (remember that they also beat Russia), also exploiting China's division during the warlord era.
While a strong current in Chinese tradition does frown on militarism - there's a Neo-Confucian saying, 'good men don't become soldiers' (好男不当兵) - many effective soldiers came from dissenters or ethnic minorities (for example, Ma Bufang, a Muslim, helping with the Tibet Question). Another Muslim eunuch lead the 'treasure voyages' that reached Africa until the Ming dynasty shut it down, burned the ships, and became isolationist.
I feel like Japan's more docile. Under the Tokugawa Bakufu it was isolationist, and since the end of the US occupation, it's functionally been a US protectorate and its citizens were the least likely country in a global survey to say they'd fight for their country. They showed some aggression in business from the 50s to the 80s, but now their companies have fallen behind and missed out on the smartphone revolution
> Should Asian American men arbitrage their status in Southeast Asia?
Absolutely not.
In SEA those who immigrates to Western countries do that because they want to be "white". "Fixing the bloodline", so to speak.
They also tend to be liberals, but they do so for the exact same reason Democrats are far more likely to end relations and friendship over politics (or want to be sexually active without being shamed for it).
(The working class tend to migrate to other Asian countries for shorter term work).
They won't. Why? They don't consider diaspora as part of China.
Heck even Hong Kong already show it - the Chinese state don't trust Hong Kongers because they aren't educated in Chinese system. The last time the Chinese even care about diaspora is during Chinese Civil War with Taiwan and even during this time Chinese diaspora schools made the kids have loyalties to China.
They don't trust Singaporeans despite Singaporeans are forced to secede because they are too Chinese and the Chinese don't trust them either.
Having just flown back from Japan an hour ago, I gotta agree that it's a misconception for people to see it as more Faustian than its neighbors. It basically feels like it's stuck in the 2000s because it's a gerontocracy filled with DVD, CD, and even VHS stores where you have to pay with cash to make a purchase. In the 80s the majority of the top 50 companies by market cap were Japanese, whereas now Toyota is the only one that still is. Panasonic, Sharpe, and Toshiba have stopped selling TVs in the US because they couldn't keep up with Korean companies.
I posit that the reason people online perceive Japan as more restless and agentic is that it happened to be the first to converge with the West due to historical contingencies. China was bigger and therefore of more interest to the West, so the British went in and set off the century of humiliation. The US encroached on Japan, and the Japanese saw what had happened to China and took active steps to avoid such a fate. Korea then began the same process but was swept by the currents of great power competition and thus was unable to sustain the Gabo Reforms independently. The fact that Japan dominated export markets for several decades further cemented its place in the American psyche as a restless competitor.
I think most observers no longer hold this view however. Whenever you read an article or watch a video about contemporary Japan, it always tells the same story of Japan rising from the ashes of war then crashing into sclerotic, postmodern decline in the 90s.
Chinese pop culture/entertainment is a lot less accessible for westerners than Japanese or South Korean media. That results in a lack of soft power and Chinese culture seems more foreign and daunting to try to understand. But I agree that China is more impressive than Japan. Wignat weeaboos are so cringe. And many of the Chinese FOBs I worked with when I was in healthcare were quite brash and straightforward, including the women. Koreans are the reserved ones; they are like turbo-WASPs, right down to the mainline Protestantism. I’ve always admired the opulent, slightly vulgar aesthetics of rich Chinese people. IMO East Asians in the US tend to be fairly meritocratic and I usually enjoyed having them as coworkers. Also a lot of FOBs are racist which is funny lol
Koreans are the least passive East Asians. People literally pull passersby off the street and drag them into cult churches. People cuss each other out in public, and guys spit on the sidewalk. People talk on the metro and get publicly drunk on holiday nights. Koreans are rightly stereotyped as overly emotional, explosive, and obsessed with ostentatious displays of wealth. The country also has the most tumultuous politics. Koreans are the French of Asians, Japanese the Germans/Scandinavians, and Viets the Italians.
Chinese have had a run with soft power in the form of Hong Kong movies in the 80s and 90s, and boba’s a Taiwanese creation
Fair points. I have heard the stereotype that Koreans drink a lot and can be very emotional. I definitely don’t think they are passive! To me, aesthetics of k-dramas and movies register as very luxurious but also tasteful. Also I was kinda stereotyping based on my experiences with Christian upper-middle class Korean Americans and how they act in mixed company. I’m sure you’re correct about Koreans in Korea, though. The analogy to France is a good one.
Chinese shows and movies are just way harder to find in translation. SK deliberately makes its pop culture accessible to foreigners.
Most Korean Americans are evangelical rather than mainline, and the churches tend to be money-generating machines that rely a lot on charisma. A lot of second gen Korean Americans are hood Asians though this subculture may have declined as LA's priced people out. So, I've always seen Korean Americans as having the vain and bold sensibilities of the home country in contrast to the reserved and polite behavior of Japanese people.
Interestingly a lot of Korean pop culture is designed specifically to be marketed overseas rather than domestically. Hence, a lot of the most popular K-pop idols aren't Korean (Lisa's Thai and Hanni's Australian for instance).
30:18 agreed, incredibly gay and cucked behavior
I find it strange that you’ll consider the Chinese to be king Asian when they’re historically more docile and at the behest of Japanese invading forces
China was historically dominant in its neighborhood except against Japan, which only successfully invaded once during WWII. This success came from Japan's unique position as the region's sole industrialized power (remember that they also beat Russia), also exploiting China's division during the warlord era.
While a strong current in Chinese tradition does frown on militarism - there's a Neo-Confucian saying, 'good men don't become soldiers' (好男不当兵) - many effective soldiers came from dissenters or ethnic minorities (for example, Ma Bufang, a Muslim, helping with the Tibet Question). Another Muslim eunuch lead the 'treasure voyages' that reached Africa until the Ming dynasty shut it down, burned the ships, and became isolationist.
I feel like Japan's more docile. Under the Tokugawa Bakufu it was isolationist, and since the end of the US occupation, it's functionally been a US protectorate and its citizens were the least likely country in a global survey to say they'd fight for their country. They showed some aggression in business from the 50s to the 80s, but now their companies have fallen behind and missed out on the smartphone revolution
> Should Asian American men arbitrage their status in Southeast Asia?
Absolutely not.
In SEA those who immigrates to Western countries do that because they want to be "white". "Fixing the bloodline", so to speak.
They also tend to be liberals, but they do so for the exact same reason Democrats are far more likely to end relations and friendship over politics (or want to be sexually active without being shamed for it).
(The working class tend to migrate to other Asian countries for shorter term work).
> Would China even try to protect its diaspora?
They won't. Why? They don't consider diaspora as part of China.
Heck even Hong Kong already show it - the Chinese state don't trust Hong Kongers because they aren't educated in Chinese system. The last time the Chinese even care about diaspora is during Chinese Civil War with Taiwan and even during this time Chinese diaspora schools made the kids have loyalties to China.
They don't trust Singaporeans despite Singaporeans are forced to secede because they are too Chinese and the Chinese don't trust them either.
This is also related to this
> Asian girls as “hyper-white women” suited for Corporate America
Exactly! If anything they want to be as white as possible, marry a white boy because they want to be sexually active without being shamed for it.